Hello. I’ve come across your web page & would like a definition of the ‘awakened state/person’? I ask this as I find your essays seem to imply you are not at an ‘end’ point, that awakening has many ‘layers’ of unfoldment, which, if so, implies that there wouldn’t be only one ‘2nd birth’ but many, unless u take the first time one experiences the non-dual as marking that date.

Right; for most people there appears to be a basic dividing line. It’s still a continuum, there’s just a major shift within that continuum. As far as how to define the “awakened state” or “awakened person”, well that’s a great question. And as far as I can tell, that will forever be hotly debated, simply because there is no single shift that will continue to appear consistent over time or over large populations. This is because, despite our many surface similarities, everyone is so remarkably and preciously different. Now, there are some consistencies in the types of shifts that occur, which I’ve been able to identify over time. But even within the types of shifts, there is a wide range of experience.

Having said that, in general, I would say someone has awakened to what I call Stage 3 when they recognize that their consciousness is awake and that consciousness is the subjective self. Some people get this in a dissociated way (consciousness appears to be outside the body), which others get this in a more embodied way (consciousness and the body seem to be in the same space).

Once someone gets that the subjective self (consciousness) and the objective self (bodymind) are the same thing and that same thing is the One Thing that’s being Everything, I’d say that person has awakened to Stage 4 or Onlyness (fundamental Absolute/Relative unification).

Once someone gets that Onlyness can be shared in Mutual Onlyness and that Other is an aspect of Self (this takes a lot of awakened work in relationship), I’d say that person has awakened to Stage 5 (fundamental Self/Other unification).

Once someone surrenders into the recognition that he or she is a cell in the multi-billion cell organism of Humanity, I’d say that person has awakened to Stage 6 (Trust in Being).

There are my personal definitions, based on my experience working with many hundreds of people over many years. But I’m not claiming they’re in any way ultimate. These are simply my observations based on the evidence I’m aware of.

Re the line in one of your essays: "All the great saints, sages, and mystics either died of something horrible or took themselves out before it happened.
Really? I imagine quite a few to die of old age, and even in cases like Ramana Maharshi, tho he died  of cancer, I imagine he would have been OK with it. It was only his body, after all, dying. He himself said He wasn’t going anywhere!

Well, what does it mean to “die of old age”? One always dies of something in particular, and my friends tell me all the famous ones died of something nasty, like cancer or diabetes. Yes, it’s easy to believe Ramana would have said exactly that; that was his direct experience. But I do maintain that just because that was his truth, doesn’t mean he wasn’t going anywhere. If you believe all we truly are is universal consciousness, then it makes sense to say you're not going anywhere after death. But when you notice that the universal aspect is only part of who you are, you don’t get to be so smug about what happens after death.

Re Gill Smith; I find it hard to believe she can still be struggling so much after having experienced a 2nd birth. Is that also what all you WDM teachers continue to experience?

As I write in Myths of Enlightenment, none of the shifts of which I speak can possibly fulfil our idealized notions of what enlightenment was supposed to do for us. The second birth doesn’t end all struggling; it simply fundamentally ends the basic struggle against your own (and All) existence. That doesn’t mean life is suddenly a bowl of cherries. You still have years of “shakedown” to heal your childhood wounds and conditioning and to integrate your new worldview with the one you’ve been looking through all your life. It’s a process. And even then, there are still pains and struggles. In the deeply matured life, you simply don’t tend to add unnecessary struggles to the necessary ones.

And no, struggle isn’t all we experience. After years of healing and integration, I can say that on average, we experience fundamental ease and freedom to express our love and creativity. Over the years, there’s an increasing feeling of fulfilment. But it’s still not perfect. You actually get to the place where you see how perfect all the imperfection is.

How can u be sure your experience is really ‘real’, and not in itself a delusion of being? (I was sure you had a link to a web site but I couldn’t access it & then when I tried looking for where it was on one of her essays, I couldn’t locate it! Weird things happen to me all the time! One of the universe’s perverse tricks on my I’m sure!)

Great question. How can anyone ever be sure of that? Answer: Can’t. Ever. If you believe someone gets to be sure just because they’ve had a glorious awakening experience, well, I say they’re just being arrogant. Life is a Mystery. We can never know what we don’t yet know. And since Being is infinite (and expanding at a practically infinite pace), there will forever be more to know than we can possibly know. Y’know?

She implies that the heart is somehow deceptive in her poetry, yet surely the true heart is/knows/acts only with love? Isn’t love itself our true essence?

Sounds to me like you have some idealized notions about “heart”. Would it be so bothersome to discover that even the heart isn’t perfect (whatever perfect means)?

Can u as a teacher say how long it can be B4 another person (student) may take to experience a 2nd birth? Can u tell after speaking to someone for a while, or is this an unknowable thing?

I have a gift for this. It’s not an exact science, more like trying to predict the weather. My ability to guess at it depends on many factors. If one is already close, it’s easier to guess. It usually takes a few sessions to get a feeling for one’s trajectory. It’s a bit like watching a fly ball; you need several data points before you can guess where and when it’ll land.

And how do you know when someone has really experienced a 2nd birth?

It's not an exact science. But we conduct interviews based on our years of experience. I call usually feel it very clearly; how the person responds to questions gives info about where they’re talking from.

You state: “awakening just drops you into being more and more of you”: but more of me seems very insignificant – I don’t enjoy who/what I am & my life seems so meaningless/boring. I read about the law of attraction & I keep wondering why it is I’ve attracted what I have!

I’d like to suggest that your life only seems insignificant because you haven’t yet discovered your own significance. The feeling of life being meaningless and boring may be part of The Rot, during which you’re shedding your attachment to the old meanings you got from parents and society. Believe me, there are new meanings ahead. And by the way, the “law of attraction” is only a partial view on the universe. If you take it to be whole, you’re screwed, because just reading about war in the middle east means you created it. Life is way too mysterious to be corralled into any New Age ism.

Let me put it this way: I’m been a ‘seeker’ 4 a long time & getting more ‘desperate’ and yet feel that how u describe is realisable if it were not 4 my negativity of realising, or accepting things. I still get annoyed by so many things, eg my dog’s barking & bad breath, to use but one silly example! I feel I live in the wrong place. I don’t like the work I do any more (nursing), and keep wondering where I ‘should’ be, or would prefer to be. Certainly if I had my life over again I would wish to have spent ‘time’ very differently: have travelled to do courses or lived in some of these fabulous centres u have over in the states where a wonderful array of teachers come thru. I feel I live in an enviro where few are really interested in this kind of thing, ie ‘awakening’, which makes for a boring life experience. Yet it shouldn’t be about translocating oneself either. In fact I have 2 friends who I believe live from this state which you WDM teachers speak of but somehow I’ve not been able to ‘join’ them. Whether my negativity or hard-wiring is working against me, I do not know. I have fallen into terrible depths where I have wanted to transcend my ego, tho you WDM do not talk about the ego, at least so far as I’ve read. Why is that? Other teachers, like Eckhart Tolle makes a lot about the ego being that which keeps up in our own prisons.

First of all, there’s nothing wrong with you. There’s nothing wrong with disliking your dog’s barking & bad breath. There’s nothing wrong with feeling that you live in the wrong place. There’s nothing wrong with the messiness and weirdness of embodied existence. But you don’t know this yet. When you finally have that realization, you’ll experience the immense relief for yourself. The relief is not a perfect bliss; it’s just a relief from the pain of resisting what is.

I have written much (in the subscribers area) about how spiritual people relate to the ego. Basically, Tolle and all teachers like him, are missing some huge pieces. When you start to see things from a more inclusive perspective, you’ll see that the war with the ego is part of the first life. The ego isn’t your enemy. Your mind isn’t your enemy. Your conditioning isn’t your enemy. From the second life perspective, the entire notion of being at war with these various aspect of yourself is absurd. Of course, if you believe the ego is not yourself, you’re really screwed because then you’re divided into a “real” self and a “false” self. This is war with yourself. I can help you end the war and live in fundamental (non-idealized) peace.

What would you describe is our main problem? Not accepting who we are?

It's hard for me to view being at a certain stage of life as a problem. If a flower is not yet in full bloom, is that a problem? DId it do something wrong? Just as flowers simply need food, water, and sunlight to unfold, we humans need deep meeting, loving transmission, and skilled guidance.

Also re the cost of becoming realised, it seems to me that this process seems steeper than seeing a therapist. Shouldn’t this be more freely available? What about those who cannot afford to have sessions with u?

Right; that’s why I stated that this process isn’t for those who believe spiritual teachers should be a free public utility. No, I don’t believe that this or any knowledge “should” be “freely available”. To me, that’s just more idealistic notions that essentially come from India, where they've been starving for centuries. They’ve taken a long time to figure out the importance of the individual self and honoring one's individual needs. If I don’t honor my own needs, I become ineffective at helping others. Therefore, to honor my needs and yours, I need to charge money.

Return to Letters